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	<title>Comments on: The Crucifer Paradox</title>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 18:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Hi Lynn,

I&#039;m certainly not a doctor, but here&#039;s my layperson&#039;s understanding of some of the diagnostic issues. Before the use of blood tests, it was common to diagnose hypothyroidism on the basis of basal body temperature, which is the body&#039;s resting temperature, and also the Achilles reflex, which is slow in hypothyroid patients. These tests aren&#039;t used as much anymore, yet today&#039;s blood tests are not sensitive enough to diagnose mild hypothyroidism--which can still cause symptoms. If you are interested in pursuing this question, I would contact the Barnes Foundation. Pat Puglio is the director and she possesses a wealth of knowledge on this topic. She can also tell you about a urine test done in Belgium that is both sensitive and thorough and is available to people in this country through the Barnes Foundation. I hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lynn,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m certainly not a doctor, but here&#8217;s my layperson&#8217;s understanding of some of the diagnostic issues. Before the use of blood tests, it was common to diagnose hypothyroidism on the basis of basal body temperature, which is the body&#8217;s resting temperature, and also the Achilles reflex, which is slow in hypothyroid patients. These tests aren&#8217;t used as much anymore, yet today&#8217;s blood tests are not sensitive enough to diagnose mild hypothyroidism&#8211;which can still cause symptoms. If you are interested in pursuing this question, I would contact the Barnes Foundation. Pat Puglio is the director and she possesses a wealth of knowledge on this topic. She can also tell you about a urine test done in Belgium that is both sensitive and thorough and is available to people in this country through the Barnes Foundation. I hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Hi Ellen,
Thanks so much for this web site. I just browsed, but will read it thoroughly when I have more time.
I always have a thyroid test when the Dr. takes my blood and it always comes out normal. I&#039;m wondering if there is  a better way to have it tested? Do you have any idea? It&#039;s scary that lab tests can be so wrong so much of the time.
Thanks again for all of the information that you give to all of us.
Lynn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ellen,<br />
Thanks so much for this web site. I just browsed, but will read it thoroughly when I have more time.<br />
I always have a thyroid test when the Dr. takes my blood and it always comes out normal. I&#8217;m wondering if there is  a better way to have it tested? Do you have any idea? It&#8217;s scary that lab tests can be so wrong so much of the time.<br />
Thanks again for all of the information that you give to all of us.<br />
Lynn</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-118</guid>
		<description>Hi Lynn,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and informative comment; the article you mentioned is one I read while I was researching this post. If you take a look at the paragraph that follows the one you quoted, you will see the author states that, because we don&#039;t have a lot of carefully controlled research to rely on, health care practitioners differ on their recommendations. The author suggests that &quot;the goal is not to eliminate goitrogenic foods from the meal plan, but to limit intake so that it falls within a limited range.&quot; I think my post reflects this view. 

In the realm of cancer, I have information from the Broda Barnes Foundation, also a not-for-profit, that every cancer patient they have worked with has been both thyroid and adrenal deficient--often without knowing it--and their cancer patients are often helped tremendously by balancing the endocrine system. Since immune strength is so dependent upon thyroid hormone and cortisol, it is easy to see why cancer patients may suffer from thyroid and adrenal insufficiency. The Barnes Foundation offers a large amount of literature on topics like these, all available through their website:&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brodabarnes.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; www.brodabarnes.org&lt;/a&gt;

One phrase that I think is key from the paragraph you quoted is this: &quot;In the absence of thyroid problems...&quot; In her book, The Thyroid Diet, Mary Shomon says that at least 20 million of us have thyroid conditions and most (13 million) go undiagnosed. Broda Barnes, who spent 45 years studying the endocrine system, said in 1976 that 40% of Americans were hypothryoid and many were undiagnosed because of unreliable lab tests. Today, I have heard from my own doctor that the number is closer to 50%, and lab tests are still unreliable. This would suggest that there are many of us who are thyroid deficient and don&#039;t know it.

It&#039;s so helpful to have this sort of dialogue and, of course, in the absence of sure data, we all have to fumble somewhat to find the approach that feels right to us. Thank you again for offering up your own experience with this topic. I really appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lynn,</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your thoughtful and informative comment; the article you mentioned is one I read while I was researching this post. If you take a look at the paragraph that follows the one you quoted, you will see the author states that, because we don&#8217;t have a lot of carefully controlled research to rely on, health care practitioners differ on their recommendations. The author suggests that &#8220;the goal is not to eliminate goitrogenic foods from the meal plan, but to limit intake so that it falls within a limited range.&#8221; I think my post reflects this view. </p>
<p>In the realm of cancer, I have information from the Broda Barnes Foundation, also a not-for-profit, that every cancer patient they have worked with has been both thyroid and adrenal deficient&#8211;often without knowing it&#8211;and their cancer patients are often helped tremendously by balancing the endocrine system. Since immune strength is so dependent upon thyroid hormone and cortisol, it is easy to see why cancer patients may suffer from thyroid and adrenal insufficiency. The Barnes Foundation offers a large amount of literature on topics like these, all available through their website:<a href="http://www.brodabarnes.org" rel="nofollow"> </a><a href="http://www.brodabarnes.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.brodabarnes.org</a></p>
<p>One phrase that I think is key from the paragraph you quoted is this: &#8220;In the absence of thyroid problems&#8230;&#8221; In her book, The Thyroid Diet, Mary Shomon says that at least 20 million of us have thyroid conditions and most (13 million) go undiagnosed. Broda Barnes, who spent 45 years studying the endocrine system, said in 1976 that 40% of Americans were hypothryoid and many were undiagnosed because of unreliable lab tests. Today, I have heard from my own doctor that the number is closer to 50%, and lab tests are still unreliable. This would suggest that there are many of us who are thyroid deficient and don&#8217;t know it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s so helpful to have this sort of dialogue and, of course, in the absence of sure data, we all have to fumble somewhat to find the approach that feels right to us. Thank you again for offering up your own experience with this topic. I really appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 14:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Hi Ellen,
Happy New Year.
Thanks for the information. When I juice or teach a juicing class to people living with cancer or those who are trying to prevent a recurrence, I always use kale, cabbage, arugula and any other cruciferous vegetable that&#039;s available. I&#039;ve been juicing for a few years and the bulk of my juice is always cruciferous because of their cancer fighting properties. 
I have looked this up and came up with this:

Goitrogens and health

In the absence of thyroid problems, there is no research evidence to suggest that goitrogenic foods will negatively impact your health. In fact, the opposite is true: soy foods and cruciferous vegetables have unique nutritional value, and intake of these foods has been associated with decreased risk of disease in many research studies. That&#039;s one of the reasons we&#039;ve included both types of food among the World&#039;s Healthiest Foods! 
There&#039;s lots more to this article:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&amp;dbid=47

The site is  The George Mateljan Foundation for The World&#039;s Healthiest Foods. It
is not-for-profit so they can offer an independent perspective that is not influenced by commercial interests. 
I think reading this site will be of great interest to all.
Thanks again for a very interesting blog.

Lynn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ellen,<br />
Happy New Year.<br />
Thanks for the information. When I juice or teach a juicing class to people living with cancer or those who are trying to prevent a recurrence, I always use kale, cabbage, arugula and any other cruciferous vegetable that&#8217;s available. I&#8217;ve been juicing for a few years and the bulk of my juice is always cruciferous because of their cancer fighting properties.<br />
I have looked this up and came up with this:</p>
<p>Goitrogens and health</p>
<p>In the absence of thyroid problems, there is no research evidence to suggest that goitrogenic foods will negatively impact your health. In fact, the opposite is true: soy foods and cruciferous vegetables have unique nutritional value, and intake of these foods has been associated with decreased risk of disease in many research studies. That&#8217;s one of the reasons we&#8217;ve included both types of food among the World&#8217;s Healthiest Foods!<br />
There&#8217;s lots more to this article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&amp;dbid=47" rel="nofollow">http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&amp;dbid=47</a></p>
<p>The site is  The George Mateljan Foundation for The World&#8217;s Healthiest Foods. It<br />
is not-for-profit so they can offer an independent perspective that is not influenced by commercial interests.<br />
I think reading this site will be of great interest to all.<br />
Thanks again for a very interesting blog.</p>
<p>Lynn</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy Leb</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Leb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-116</guid>
		<description>Hi Ellen,

Thank you so much for this information. I always have cut up raw veggies in the fridge for the kids to snack on. I am now eliminating  the raw Broccoli and cauliflower. I  had assumed these were good choices because of their cancer fighting properties. In our household Arugula, Broccoli and cauliflower will now be cooked.
Thanks,
Kathy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ellen,</p>
<p>Thank you so much for this information. I always have cut up raw veggies in the fridge for the kids to snack on. I am now eliminating  the raw Broccoli and cauliflower. I  had assumed these were good choices because of their cancer fighting properties. In our household Arugula, Broccoli and cauliflower will now be cooked.<br />
Thanks,<br />
Kathy</p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Ellen-thanks so much for bringing this topic up in your blog. With a diagnosis of  hypothyroidism, it&#039;s critical to know that this group of vegetables that I have been consuming on a regular basis for years, has probably not contributed  to the overall good health that I intended to foster while consuming them!  I will change my cooking habits accordingly.  Thanks for the reference to the Masterjohn article too.
Gina</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellen-thanks so much for bringing this topic up in your blog. With a diagnosis of  hypothyroidism, it&#8217;s critical to know that this group of vegetables that I have been consuming on a regular basis for years, has probably not contributed  to the overall good health that I intended to foster while consuming them!  I will change my cooking habits accordingly.  Thanks for the reference to the Masterjohn article too.<br />
Gina</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Hi Brian, thanks so much for your comment and what great questions you pose! I have not seen any literature suggesting that studies have been done on men and women separately to determine the effect of crucifers on each. So, for now, we would have to assume that these considerations apply to both men and women in the same way. As for the quantity, some studies refer to a &quot;high&quot; level of crucifers--meaning an amount that would be toxic--as more than several servings a year. Other studies suggest it&#039;s more like one serving a day. The whole range in between has also been considered. The research is complicated to sift through, but If you want to do a little digging on your own, I can recommend an article by Chris Masterjohn and here is the link (if it doesn&#039;t work, simply Google &quot;Bearers of the Cross: Crucifers, Chris Masterjohn&quot; and you will find it: 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.westonaprice.org/Bearers-of-the-Cross-in-the-Context-of-Traditional-Diets-and-Modern-Science.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.westonaprice.org/Bearers-of-the-Cross-Crucifers-in-the-Context-of-Traditional-Diets-and-Modern-Science.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brian, thanks so much for your comment and what great questions you pose! I have not seen any literature suggesting that studies have been done on men and women separately to determine the effect of crucifers on each. So, for now, we would have to assume that these considerations apply to both men and women in the same way. As for the quantity, some studies refer to a &#8220;high&#8221; level of crucifers&#8211;meaning an amount that would be toxic&#8211;as more than several servings a year. Other studies suggest it&#8217;s more like one serving a day. The whole range in between has also been considered. The research is complicated to sift through, but If you want to do a little digging on your own, I can recommend an article by Chris Masterjohn and here is the link (if it doesn&#8217;t work, simply Google &#8220;Bearers of the Cross: Crucifers, Chris Masterjohn&#8221; and you will find it: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.westonaprice.org/Bearers-of-the-Cross-in-the-Context-of-Traditional-Diets-and-Modern-Science.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.westonaprice.org/Bearers-of-the-Cross-Crucifers-in-the-Context-of-Traditional-Diets-and-Modern-Science.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/2009/12/30/the-crucifer-paradox/comment-page-1/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ellensfoodandsoul.com/blog/?p=842#comment-113</guid>
		<description>Fascinating post, Ellen!  I was wondering if you could clarify two things.  First, how much would a person have to consume for these vegetables to have a toxic effect on them?  And have there been studies in the effects on both men and women?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating post, Ellen!  I was wondering if you could clarify two things.  First, how much would a person have to consume for these vegetables to have a toxic effect on them?  And have there been studies in the effects on both men and women?</p>
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